Ben and Matt sit down to talk to Phil Sturgeon… yes that Phil Sturgeon for their once every 2 year check in with the former host of this very podcast. They talk about what it’s like to bikepack across Europe during working hours, how Phil knew what issues needed to be addressed immediately and which he could push off to later and then they talk about his current project which involves APIs and trees.

Links: - Trees foundation Phil is involved with - Phil’s place on the internet - Phil and Matt’s other project